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Will The Approved Pension Reform Bill Really Help Us?

Before adjourning, state lawmakers passed a bill late Friday that could cut pension costs by billions of dollars. Critics say the bill has loopholes that may make things even worse.

 

On Friday, California state legislators passed a reform measure that is expected to put new limits on pensions for future state and local government employees, saving billions of dollars in retirement spending.

The bill, AB340, passed 49-8 in the Assembly and 38-1 in the state Senate.

Brought forward by Governor Jerry Brown on Tuesday, the new law - if signed by Brown - could cut $40 billion to $60 billion in pension expenses for government employers over the next 30 years, according to the California Public Employees' Retirement System (CalPERS), the largest public pension fund in the United States.

According to the Huffington Post, the legislation will increase the retirement age for new employees, cap the annual payout at $132,120, eliminate numerous abuses of the system and require workers who are not contributing half of their retirement costs to pay more.

State and local governments have been struggling to meet the demands of long-held pension promises to retirees while their abilities to pay shrink.

Public employee unions are unhappy about the agreement, and complained that Democrats who normally support their causes in Sacramento had abandoned them.

Others felt the legislation did not go far enough.

"I hope people acknowledge there is much, much more work to be done," said Joe Nation, a former Democratic member of the state Assembly who now teaches public policy at Stanford University in an interview with Reuters. "It's better than moving backwards but this barely moves the ball forward."

Nation in recent years has overseen studies warning California and its local governments face unfunded pension liabilities that stretch into the hundreds of billions of dollars.

Pension costs contributed to the bankruptcy filings of Stockton and San Bernardino this year.

"Because we are so under water right now there just really has to be more," Nation told Reuters.

What do you think? Will this reform measure being sent to Governor Brown help the economies of our state and our cities? Should there be a cap on the amount a person can earn from a pension?

Let us know in your comments. 

Dan Degraffenreid September 3, 2012 at 12:34 pm
I agree
Dan Degraffenreid September 3, 2012 at 12:39 pm
David H. Perez, You to be a Democrat and a teacher I'll just bet and you can't even reply to his post. Another uncivil servant for sure, who seems to be ungrateful to the tax payers who pay his salary. MORE MORE MORE GIVE US MORE MORE and MORE. we want your money go work for it and give it to us, I say get a private sector job and see if it works well for you.
David H. Perez September 3, 2012 at 01:23 pm
@Allen - Public employees DO pay their fair share of taxes. Corporations and rich people don't.
David H. Perez September 3, 2012 at 01:26 pm
Got news for you, Dan. I have never been a teacher, I worked in the private sector, and have always paid just as much taxes as you (unless you are rich of course). There, I replied to your ignorant post.
Harvey Wallbanger September 3, 2012 at 01:37 pm
Dan, your IQ and literary skills are a true indicator of how misinformed you are and how out of touch you appear to be. What do YOU actually do for work? For your community?? Heck, for society in general??? Sit your bay windowed, Bay Area flat living off Mommy and Daddy's largesse?! I've done nothing but serve this country as a public servant. I love the opportunity this career has afforded me while I take care of the ignorant masses such as yourself. Yes, I'm a Fireman, and I have sacrificed my family's time, my physical health, and my blood, sweat, and tears to be given back a slap in the face by the sheep who would follow any postulating, political headline-grabber over a cliff if thats where they were heading. I can't wait until you and your mental giants egt done with civil servants and then try to back some politico's meager attempts to fend off the crappy, private-sector, contracted buffoons who will be trying to save your life, your home, or just make your "emergency" "all better"! You are so myopic you'll accept whatever pablum-puking idiot has to say under the guise of "cutting costs" to the system. Good luck Dan, remember the magic 3 numbers; 911.......the ones who arrive may be there a little late.....there contract may allow them.....
Allen King September 3, 2012 at 04:34 pm
Actually, people are getting sick of highhandedness and emotional blackmail of people like you. Yes you do provide an essential service but we all do something that is important for society. It is time for you folks to wake up and get a dose of reality. There is no money left to support your insatiable greed. We in private sector also sacrifice our families, our health, our lives. You job is no more dangerous than a cab driver. What about the kids who go to Iraq and Afghanistan and either never come back or come back broken? Nobody argues that public safety folks should be paid reasonably. But unlimited sick day accruals, nonsensical perks, retiring at 100% salary at the age of 50. Give me a break. We can no longer be treated as your ATM. No more taxes to support unsustainable pensions. No more unholy nexus between unions and crook politicians who continue advocating more and more taxes so that you folks can continue getting these unsustainable pensions while the rest of us suffer. When economy was good, you got a money had over fist. Now we are in bad times and you don't want to give any concessions? Some heros. More like pirates. Cities are filing bankrupcy and communities are being destroyed but you won't budge.
Allen King September 3, 2012 at 04:36 pm
And thanks for telling us that if we don't pay up, you won't attend to us when we call 9-1-1. You know what, we are getting sick of you greedy guys. Our communities are being destroyed because of your greed. Your salaries, perks and pension benefits have gone up 80% in the last 10 years while average income of American middle class has fallen 10%. If you don't like the job, quit. There is a long line of unemployed people.
David H. Perez September 3, 2012 at 08:20 pm
@Harvey Wallbanger- Unfortunately, neither you nor I will ever set straight ignorant uninformed buffoons like Dan Degraffenreid and Allen King. They are clearly not interested in facts nor the truth. They will just continue to get their information from "pablum-puking idiots" like Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. Harvey, I just want to let you know I respect and appreciate what you have done as a firefighter and I don't think you have been paid enough. That also goes for public employees like police and teachers. You are all among the most underpaid professionals. I wish we had the addresses of people like Dan and Allen, since if they don't think folks like you are worth the money, then maybe they should receive slower responses to emergencies (or maybe none at all). As far as upcoming election measures, I PLAN TO VOTE FOR ANYTHING THAT BENEFITS FIREFIGHTERS, LAW ENFORCEMENT AND TEACHERS. Thanks for the work you do, Harvey.
Allen King September 4, 2012 at 01:21 am
@David H. Perez, yes baffoon, you certainly have clarified the facts. Once people like you are forced to pay their fair share of taxes, you will learn. What facts did you mention in your posts? You and your union buddies are just rambling how important their jobs are. CA is in 300billion pension fund deficit. Can you tell who will pay that? Cities are filing bankruptcy and/or cutting all services just to satisfy union greeds. Yea, we are uninformed and you illiterates know everything.
Allen King September 4, 2012 at 01:26 am
Also, do you know what happens when cities file bankruptcies? All gone. No pension, no benefits, 50% salary, no retiree medical... do you want that to happen to our cops and firefighters? because if nothing is done to ballooning pension benefits, this is exactly what will happen throughout California and the country. Do you have any solution to the financial crisis? Oh, sorry, yes do you. TAX TAX TAX TAX people until they turn blue. Good luck with that. People have come to realize now that they are being used as ATM. San Jose is 70% Democrat, yet measure B was approved with 70% votes. You got that fool?
Allen King September 4, 2012 at 02:15 am
People, remember to vote NO on all tax measures this November. Taxes, once up, never go down, even when they claim that some taxes are temporary. Consider these for example:
The Golden Gate Bridge was supposed to abolish the toll after, I believe it was 50 years, and it would be free. No such luck. People have apparently forgotten that the state sales tax had that temporary 0.25% increase to pay for the '89 Loma Prieta quake. That was back when the sales tax was 6%. yet the people will probably be foolish enough to float yet another "temporary" tax hike in November.
Cathy P. September 7, 2012 at 06:11 pm
@Allen King: you say to a Firefighter "You (sic your) job is no more dangerous than a cab driver." Really?
Cathy P. September 7, 2012 at 06:32 pm
@Allen King: when cities file bankruptcy EVERYONE loses, not just those with pensions. Tax payers are footing the bill for all the overpaid executives at all the bailed out Wall Street firms like GE, AIG, Fanny and Freddy; for Wall Street’s $140 billion dollar bonuses in 2009 and 2010; for all the billions and billions of dollars in losses they just took; and for all the trillions in losses they will take in the near future. After the public’s money has been given away to bail out the rich, of course there’s nothing left to pay for much else.
Choose to vote against all tax increases but at least educate yourself: pensions are not the problem. Pension costs are one of the smallest growing costs in all of state government. The state pays less today for pensions on a percentage basis than in 1980. Recently approved tax breaks for corporations are costing taxpayers like you and me a billion dollars a year for the next five years, according to the Legislative Analyst. Meanwhile, bankers and Wall Street bosses even now are enjoying raises and bonuses while the economy continues to stagnate around them. The Federal Reserve published its Survey of Consumer Finances, which showed that the median American family’s net worth fell almost 40 percent in the three years ending in 2010, and real income fell 7.7 percent. At the same time, CEO pay rose 5 percent between 2010 and 2011 — in some cases it went up 500 percent (according to a survey by the New York Times).
Cathy P. September 7, 2012 at 06:49 pm
Yes, San Jose voters, the majority Democrat, approved Measure B but Mayor Chuck Reed has been under investigation for inflating the numbers for his five-year retirement cost projections. Imagine that, a lying politician!
Cathy P. September 7, 2012 at 07:05 pm
@Dan Degraffenreid: here's a little educational information for you: if I may cite the annual CalPERS report, “Statewide every dollar paid to a CalPERS beneficiary (teachers, firefighters, etc.) results in $2.26 in economic activity, which we call a multiplier of 2.26 for every dollar. In 2010, CalPERS paid nearly $12 billion in benefits to more than 500,000 retirees, beneficiaries, and survivors. Approximately 86 percent of those annuitants live in California and spend their monthly income in the state’s 58 counties. The average CalPERS retiree leaves public service at 60 years old after more than 20 years on the job. The average monthly CalPERS benefit in California in 2010 was $2,236 based on this study of 431,000 beneficiaries. CalPERS annuitants live in all of California’s 58 counties.” Continuing, “State retirees receiving CalPERS payments generated $1 billion State and local taxes, including almost $620 million in property and sales taxes. Each dollar contributed by state and local governments to the CalPERS Fund is invested, grows over time and when paid to beneficiaries (in 2010) generated $10.79 of activity in the California economy; Central Coast (4 counties) $9.8 million. Retired people have earned their pension and benefits, it is not a gift from the state, county, or city.
Allen King September 8, 2012 at 02:49 am
Cathy, you talk like those "occupy fools". You rationale that because wall st. executives are highly paid and banks are bungling up, we should continue paying unsutainable benefits and pensions to public union employees. What college did you go to? What local government pays wall street executives? Pension is a small things? are you kidding me? Local governments are melting under the heavy burden of pensions. California pension deficit is $300 Billion. And perks like unlimited sick accruals, final pay spiking, unlimited vacation day accruals, retiring at 50 at 100% salary.... these doesn't seem ridiculous to you?
You might think you are very intelligent but blinds and brainless people like you are the reason why this country is going down. And yes, check the list of dangerous jobs. You will be surprised.
Allen King September 8, 2012 at 02:52 am
Also, one people like yourself are forced to pay their fair share of taxes, you will start seeing what we private sector and still employed people see. There are 11 tax increase measure on the ballot in November. This gravy train wouldn't stop until people send a clear message to union cronies posing as our representatives that enough is enough.
Allen King September 8, 2012 at 02:55 am
And you want to know what is the most dangerous job? Kids going to Iraq and Afghanistan. How much do we pay them? Poor people come back broken and many ends up homeless. Reason: they don't have a union and they are not joined in the hip with politicians, like public employees.
Allen King September 8, 2012 at 02:59 am
And you occupy people keep stating that banks are bungling up and sucking up money. What did your lovely president did to stop that?
Cathy P. September 8, 2012 at 12:50 pm
@Allen King: you are comparing apples with oranges and your rant is all over the map and too hard to follow. I was citing facts about public workers and the pensions that you despise (and envy) so much. As for my being one of those occupy fools, well, you know what happens when you assume.
P.S. My "lovely President" wasn't the one who started sending our kids to Iraq in the first place, so don't preach to me about that. I lost a 19 year old nephew in Tikrit thanks to GWB's war. The Hummer he was patroling in was blown to pieces by an IED.
Cindy Lee September 13, 2012 at 01:29 am
@ Beth, I agree with you, pensions should be resonable. Not all public workers get to retire with 100% of their pay nor do they make a $100,000 a year, the majority of public workers make half of that. @ Dan, no disrespect but " lifetime employment"? that's not true, many public employees have been laid off in the last 3 years. It's time to start looking at the people that we elect to represent us. The current City Council is who we elected and they will stay as long as they can and will probably always win an election.
Cathy P. September 13, 2012 at 11:49 am
@Cindy Lee: the majority of public workers make nowhere near $50k a year. According to CalPERS, as of June 30, 2011, the average monthly pension was $2,331. The average years of service was 20.3. The average public pension in California is $26,000 per year; half of all public employee retirees earn less than $18,000 a year. Try living on that in California! The six-figure pensions sensationalized by pension busters amount to less than two percent of public pensions.
Allen King September 13, 2012 at 12:25 pm
Your response shows how mentally bankrupt you are, just like any other occupy fool. My comment had nothing to do with who sent them. Can you read? Yes I despise insane benefits and pensions. San Jose paid 21 millon dollar in sick leave accruals last year. This money could be used to hire 120 cops. Tell me one private employer where you can accrue unlimited vacations let alone sick leaves.
Allen King September 13, 2012 at 12:31 pm
People getting 18K, 26K pension are ok. The fight is where an employee gets 500K lumpsum at retirement and then over 200K per year in pension. There are plenty of them. Any firefighter or cop retiring these days is getting six figure pension. Unlimited sick day accrual and payouts, or final paycheck spiking and other abuses must stop.
Also, you seem to continue making a point that these pensions are reasonable. But, you never mention CalPERS 300 billion dollar deficit. You do you think will pay this money? Us tax payers. This deficit means that pensions were calculated using an overly optimistic formula and employees didn't put in enough. On top, these thugs who are running CalPERS (mostly union thugs or their cronies) refuses to change the investment return expectations despite failing to achieve their overly optimistic figures over and over. Since people refuses to vote any new taxes, good luck, there is no money to pay all this loot.
David H. Perez September 13, 2012 at 01:34 pm
@Allen King- "Your response shows how mentally bankrupt you are, just like any other occupy fool."
Ignorant and disrespectful statements like this make it impossible to give credibility to anything you say (not that much of what you say has any credibility anyway). I personally know a number of people who comment on the Patch, and NONE of them can stand you. So we get it that you hate public employees, OK? It is my fervent wish that someday you will face a life-threatening situation where you need police or fire help - and the agency you call remembers what you have said over and over about public employees. You make all kinds of stupid assumptions, don't have many of your facts straight or complete and keep calling people "occupiers" without knowing anything about them. My guess is that you don't work, your hatred of public employees is the result of "employment envy" and "retirement envy", and you are trying to do everything within your power to see that everyone else is just as miserable as you. And I'll bet employment is not all that you're not getting much of these days. I will close with the following statement to you: It is better to remain silent and let people think you are ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Now go back to your tea party rally and don't miss the Rush Limbaugh Show. I will not be reading or responding to any more of your stupid comments, so save your breath responding to this. Have a good life, and happy hating.
Jennifer Squires (Editor) September 13, 2012 at 02:14 pm
Wonder what retirees are really making? Here's some insight into what Watsonville-area retirees gross each month. http://watsonville.patch.com/articles/watsonville-pensions-what-retirees-are-receiving
David H. Perez September 13, 2012 at 04:27 pm
Jennifer - To debunk alot of the information that is flying around out there, I will use myself as an example. I retired last year from working for another county in the law enforcement/criminal justice field for nearly 30 years. By the end of my career, I had earned a pretty high ranking. My retirement income does not come close to six figures. Are there some abuses out there? Sure, but the abusers are an extremely small percentage of public employees.
Allen King September 13, 2012 at 11:25 pm
No I don't hate public employees. The provide essential services and I respect their work. What I hate are the unions who just won't understand the figures. There is no money left, where is the money to pay for all these insane benefits (example: unlimited sick day accruals and payouts - name one private employer in the world that does this). When times were good, they got good raises. Public employee salaries, benefits and pension all put together have gone up 60-70% in the last 10 years. In the same period of time, average income of middle class has gone down 10%. So instead of giving concession during these bad economic years, unions wants to middle class to pay more taxes so that they don't have to give any concessions. That is why majority of people, who are struggling to make ends meet, are opposed to unions. Let's see how long this gravy train lasts. Again, no money left to pay for these unsustainable perks and pension. Just look at the list Jennifer has posted. 836 people in a small town are getting six figure pensions.
Allen King September 13, 2012 at 11:30 pm
@Perez, I talk data you fools talk "hope your house get burned and no firefigher comes to rescure." This shows how mentally bankrupt and incompetent you are. You are a fool because you don't understand a simple fact that if nothing is done now, you might loose those funny dollars you are getting as pension. When your city files bankruptcy you will be getting peanuts. You fools never answer a simple question, where is the money to pay for all these? Can't you see that you are at risk of losing your pension if this system is not fixed?
Beth Dewey September 14, 2012 at 04:04 pm
Mr. King, you act like the unions are in total control and that is not the case. I think the unions are very well aware of the issues and you many not be aware of all of the issues the unions may have since you are not in the union. Management is the other half of the equation and there are probably more responsible for the situation. They are supposed to be experts on compensation and schooled in resources to do the math. Statistics don't tell the whole story and resorting to name-calling does not change anything that unions or the government management do. Many unions getting along very well with their unions. It all depends upon the competence of the individuals doing the negotiating.

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Cheri O'Neil June 5, 2013 at 05:42 pm
I use the Nike Running app to time my run and listen to stories on "This American Life" onRead More NPR.
towseesq May 30, 2013 at 08:41 am
The Soquel Cemetery looked wonderful with all of the flags flying for Memorial Day. Thank you toRead More all of the folks who did this!
Soquel Deb June 7, 2013 at 08:11 am
On my own, I did a much smaller version at the Santa Cruz cemetery by Dominican - planted flags forRead More a few 'doughboys' from WWI and Navy and Army guys from WWII. My dad was a career Naval aviator and flew reconaissance in the Vietnam conflict. Next year, I'll join you in the Soquel cemetery, what a great idea to do this as a community effort!
Dan Young April 16, 2013 at 03:45 pm
Hi, Nigel - I agree with you that there needs to be more understanding between everyone. I grew upRead More boating (lake and ocean) in this area and was taught the 'rules of the road'. As long as everyone abides by the rules and keeps each other safe, I don't care what one rides. I agree that the announcer should have been more aware not only with expressing his personal views but he should have had the experience to see that you needed to take a certain path and were not there trying to catch waves. Ignorance on his part. I kneeboard and body surf (yes, I can stand-up surf, also) and have had my share of run-ins over the years. I don't surf the major breaks anymore unless its really big, which thins out all but the most skilled. These days I try and find a little break away from the crowds (not an easy task) and am happy with a few little peelers here and there.
AdrianaR April 17, 2013 at 04:04 am
Is it me or does there seem to be an excessive amount of us vs them mentality and worse, anger inRead More Santa Cruz these days? I went to a community event not too long ago and it was clearly present amongst a number of the people there, they definitely had a "this is our town not yours" vibe going on. It reminded me of the old Valley go home mentality that rears its head sometimes. I know your post was about sharing the ocean but in a more general sense that easy going chill attitude I love about Santa Cruz seems to be getting lost in too much anger and quite frankly a "Me-ism" and egocenteredness that's a big turnoff.
Steve Westside April 17, 2013 at 05:11 pm
During the SUP/Kayak contest a few weeks ago there were a group of us below the end of the contestRead More event area and after we all (Stand-up and prone paddlers) went to far into the area the organizers just pointed out that we need to stay below the judges booth. After a bit we of course all drifted further up and then someone on land announced that it is a misdemeanor to interfere with a contest. Finally, they sent a guy out to mind us and let us know to not drift above him. All very pleasant and cordial. Except for a few surfers thought the rules did not apply to them and constantly snaked in and paddled up to grab waves. Made everyone our there grabbing a few leftover waves looking like prima donnas. Eventually those incorrigibles left and after the contest ended it was a great afternoon of surfing for everyone.
Beverly Young April 4, 2013 at 12:54 pm
A big fat 0!!!!! I couldn't stand the Rolling Stones in the 60's and I really can't stand them now.Read More They should have retired a very long time ago.
Cathy P. April 4, 2013 at 05:54 pm
When I was a teenager you were either a Beatles fan or a Stones fan, you couldn't be both ;) Let'sRead More just say I didn't become a Stones fan until my later years. That being said, I wouldn't pay any amount to see them in concert: too loud, drunk & drugged audience, and the lines are too long to the bathroom! I am glad to see they are still around even though they all are on Medicare now - rofl.
Sabrina Wilhelm April 4, 2013 at 11:47 pm
I would pay a big fat zero...